While the weight difference may not seem like much to a civilian shooter who packs up his shiny, clean competition rifle into his Pelican case and totes it to and from the range in the family truckster, you hear about things like guys cutting toothbrushes in half to save weight in the military. NEW PRICING: All products have been reduced 10%! The problem is pretty simple, the magazine's follower is failing to raise the bolt catch. Continue until the upper lip is flush with the upper receiver when closed. Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. I find it interesting that in the "Bolt Catch Issues" section of the article, they mention that if the gun's bolt-catch fails to operate properly, instead of simply checking other mags, their first-line troubleshooting is to check the critical dimensions . 6: Bolt catch fully extended = 0.359, Fig. check out the. I like the idea that I can accomplish a speedy reload by pressing a button and kicking a magazine out. Morality is nothing more than expressions of people's personal taste/ Right? My Colt LE6920 bolt is not locking back when the last round is fired nor when I insert an empty magpul pmag magazine. Magpul Pmag Bolt Hold Open Problem - YouTube 0:00 / 7:05 Magpul Pmag Bolt Hold Open Problem It's A Gun Thing 24 subscribers Subscribe 143 16K views 3 years ago Does your bolt on a. Its best to identify these two common issues with your rifle, before attempting to diagnose problems with your magazines. Loctite (red) or epoxy the Allen bolt into the standoff (threaded barrel tube), and lightly drilling the bolt head facets with a 1/8 drill bit until the socket teeth are rounded. The BC looks the same so this is a non issue. The main concern is the failure to feed. The P-mags always functioned. Your enemies, with nodding of their plumes, fan you into despair! His problem is that the front tab of the bolt catch is not engaging on the follower of the PMAG, so the bolt won't hold open on the last round. Try tightening the mag catch an extra turn. To clear, get the bolt to move back by removing the floor plate of the magazine, remove the spring and follower followed by the rounds in the magazine and the 2nd round should drop out. How can I make my rifle more reliable with PMags? and might have several still in the packaging. We have also seen similar malfunctions in a sandy environment using military spec ammo with a dirty, gummed up weapon. It knows when youre cheating..like Santa. I don't know if this is an indication of another problem being that the bolt catch is too far left. Always use the firearm and AR MAGLOCK products as designed, engineered and intended for use. Depending on the rear takedown pin you are using either pull the pin (Tacticool pin) or actuate the pin to disengage the receivers (KingPin & Hyperswitch). Thanks for the reply. How is it though that my. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. The bolt catch on the AR platform is directly in the center of the mag, so the shape of the notch doesn't matter on the AR, but on the SCAR, the bolt catch is offset slightly to the left. Posted July 20, 2016 in Shooting Accessories, TFBTV by Alex C. with 210 CommentsTags: I'm the guy at the store with 27 coupons, Magpul, pmag, PMAGs, Tightwad. Yours is 0.6640" for a difference of 0.028" which isn't as much as I expected based on drawings which is 0.049". I've heard of Issues with Pmags and ARs due to Pmags having more material on the rear of the mag, creating more distance between the follower and the Bolt Catch tooth which isn't as far with USGI mags, and wondering if it is that, plus tolerance stacking being my Catch has so much wiggle room on the Standard M&P. After depletion of your 10 round magazine, you must hit the bolt catch release to bring the bolt 'home'. The bolt catch rides up but not on the black polymer part of the mag, but the follower. After installation of the ARMagLock the button is. TSiWRX. : "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.". Is it the length of the plunger? When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. When I release the bolt, the back end of the follower is sticking up, and the bolt will strip the follower right out of the top of the magazine if I let it go. This clearance is partially determined by the use of aLuth-AR .308 rifle buffer tube, spring, and weight [https://www.luth-ar.com/product/buffer-tube-spring-assembly-kit-308/]. I'm pretty sure it's in the 80% Section. Press the AR MAGLOCK magazine release button. Just did this, no difference. None of the 3 15/30 i have worked. 11: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine release hole = 0.692. By I deepened the hole to 0.480. Let every feeble rumor shake your hearts! TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! They are not as likely to happen with premium ammo yet the chance is still there. I inspected my mags after I received my order and that's when I saw the bolt catch was up and went wtf face palm*. Replace the empty magazine with a new 10 round magazine and let it click into place. Well, there are several reasons for this. The plunger hole on this 80% lower was supposed to have already been finished. If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, Ill test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 6 (not figure 5). Maybe it's raising it too much, but a locked bolt is a locked bolt. We have heard reports these malfunctions often happened with Wolf, Tula, and Brown Bear ammo. That might give a more consistent measurement between yours and mine. .661 from top of receiver to top of mag catch inside magwell. A new one can be sent upon request. I recently assembled this Noveske rifle and bought 3. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. Sounds like the pmag is riding a little high and rubbing the bottom of the carrier a bit. I'd delete it if I could. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. IMHO, I would get a USGI / high / known quality bolt catch and try one of those. Using PMAGs can actually do irreparable damage to an FN SCAR rifle. Because of the cost difference, weight, compatibility issues, and not dropping free in many platforms, Ill stick with what I know works. i have a gen 3 pmag without the window and its kind of frustrating. New production Colt-pattern U.S. GI mags are four to five dollars cheaper than generation three PMAGs. The issue is with bolt lock back. His mags didn't ride the bolt catch up so we tried them out. Measure the depth of the hole, first. edit: i just got them. As weird as this will sound, you need to measure the length of your recoil buffer, and the internal depth of your buffer tube and post it here in addition to the excellent info already provided. 4: Clearance to bolt catch is adequate when bolt is fully retracted, Fig. I wish I could edit the original post to correct this. I sanded the top rib along the back wall of the mag near the feed and the feed itself and problem seems to have resolved. His problem is that the front tab of the bolt catch is not engaging on the follower of the PMAG, so the bolt won't hold open on the last round. Could the magazine be too low? The table shows the measurements of several magazines and the left or right cartridge. This is one of my pistols. It was initially 0.323 deep. I just checked and my BM lower does the same. A forum community dedicated to FN Herstal firearm owners and enthusiasts. Try manually locking it back a dozen or so times then checking for any wear streaks on the top of the magazine feed lips. I think I may just shoot it a few mags and see what happens.. The cause could be one of the following: Bolt catch assembly is too far away from the back of magazine well Finger on bolt catch is too short Slight slop (looseness) on magazine, or magazine faceplate . JWardJune 15, 2020 in Building a .308AR. If someone can answer that, I'd appreciate it. Excellent work with the pics and details. Privacy Policy. Hey, everyone. No need to answer that last question. I had that issue with a couple Lancer mags, ended up replacing that bolt catch when it broke with a Sig 716 bolt catch and now the one Lancer mag I saved that had the issue works in that rifle. If so, it might be worth trying another batch of pmags in case it's just a mold variation. Problems I have run into in the past include, firstly, that they wont drop free in a lot of firearms. Thanks shooterrex. I suspect yours will be higher than mine. For me it's almost all gen 2 P mags. These two pics right here, and the height difference. I will lock back, but requires a strong pull, instead of the gentle slide fully to the rear with aluminum or steel. I realized you can fix this by filing or dremeling off some material on the rear of the mag body, or by using whatever generation of magazine they implemented to fix this, or you could just arrive at my next point and save four or five dollars more by purchasing a GI mag. If you could post a pic of that comparison, it would be helpful. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The Magpul PMAG is a great, well designed magazine that many people like and use in various rifles around the world, but over the years I have discovered that they are not the best option for me personally. Note here that this PMAG will not insert into this civilian version of the HK-416, due to the odd body geometry. i have my pmags and i am just noticing a problemtried it out on 3 seperate lowers all of them have the same problem: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/derek45/AR/IMGP5612.jpg, the tip of the bolt catch that is supposed to be actuated by the back end of the magazine follower is missing the follower and end up not catching the bolt once the mag is empty. Does your caliper also have a depth gauge that can get the internal depth to the mag catch as in figure 10? With the mag catch removed, a mag can be inserted so far into the mag well that the follower moves upward beyond the point where it can lift the bolt catch. Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. The problem is interference between the bottom edge of the rear wall of the mag well and a ridge running horizontally across the PMag spine. Indeed, if could be too low, and we have a HELL of a thread here on that very issue. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. I too have seen issues with PMag followers. At the moment just keep posting as usual, the edit feature will become available. I actually just noticed this issue on my Colt 6920 with Magpul M2 PMAGS. I didn't include that aspectbecause the bolt easily clears the bolt catch (figure 4) so I didn't want to throw in a red herring andconfuse the issue. Fig. There were no ammunition-related issues during the review. PMAGs are pretty notorious for not wanting to work in various platforms, including guns like the HK-416 and M27-IAR. The upper, lower, and jig are from Daytona Tactical d.b.a. However, when using the CH to keep the BCG to the rear, the follower can slip past the bolt catch when slammed into the magwell or when jarred or shaken significantly after insertion. I'm sure someone here can find that thread on the mag catch heights. Like you hear military folk say, Ounces equal pounds. And in the case of the PMAG, a full loadout saves the user a bit of weight. Please refer to our installation videos and the instructions on your packaging. Alex is a Senior Writer for The Firearm Blog and Director of TFBTV. UPDATE: After seeing these pictures, I checked my factory mag. Mine seem to be fine after trimming of course. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. Again, kids running with scissors did this to us. Pics to follow. Some people used a 9mm bolt catch, others shaved out the bolt catch area on the mag itself. I'd like to get measurements with lowers that did not start as an 80% because there have been reports of80% lowers having the same problem as mine. the tip of the bolt catch that is supposed to be actuated by the back end of the magazine follower is missing the follower and end up not catching the bolt once the mag is empty i have a gen 3 pmag without the window and its kind of frustrating. You'll need to clay the upper, just like you'd do if you were checking an engine for piston-to-valve clearance. I dont readily know of a solution to the feed problem but I dont want to alter magazines to compensate for a receiver flaw. What corresponding dimensions do you have? We STRONGLY encourage all users to always use the new PMAG magazine or some other 10 round magazine solution with a removable floor plate. I have a substantial cache of PMAGs, I already performed the PMAG mod by cutting the back of the mag so the bolt catch wont activate. Ok, so I have searched the hide and my googlefu is actin a fool like my pmags You must log in or register to reply here. Very carefully and pay attention to how the bolt catch actually works, if you did you should figured it out almost immediately. I do need to know the correct distance of the top of the mag catch to the top of the lower as in figure 10 by using a depth gauge. Display as a link instead, I have both just to keep ammo separated. If that's what the bolt catch is suppossed to look like then my mags are a lil out of spec when inserted into the lower. If your upper and lower receivers are MIL-SPEC the ARMagLock will work. If you have something major to change a quick PM to a mod will get it fixed for ya. After depletion of your 10 round magazine, you must hit the bolt catch release to bring the bolt home. Not trying to be a dick, but can you summarize in one sentence what the rifle is NOT doing? I don't and I didn't . honest. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Bolt Catch issues w/ Pmags + few questions, https://www.triggershims.com/ar_15_shims.html. First and foremost, I will readily acknowledge that PMAGs are a great magazine. Could i just have faulty mags? Problem: 30 round Pmag follower doesn't catch on the front lip of the bolt catch. You must log in or register to reply here. Has anyone seen this? I thought it was a nonissue with the gen 3. This can cause partial engagement of the bolt catch and result in unintentional contact between the bolt carrier group and the bolt catch during normal weapon operation. If you experience this issue, make sure your lower is within spec, and your bolt catch is installed correctly and not worn down. It's a whole lot of details. Just checked all of mine, I'm not sure how HC's ended up with a witness mark where it's at. Can anyone offer insight to the cause of or solution to these problems? https://www.luth-ar.com/product/buffer-tube-spring-assembly-kit-308/, Bolt catch is from a TacFire .308 AR Lower Parts Kit (not for an AR-15). All it takes is one out of spec cartridge that the extractor fails to grab leaving the cartridge behind in the chamber, going back then forward and pushing a fresh round against the cartridge left behind and you have the dreaded double feed where everything locks up. So, I marked it and I'm gonna keep running it through to see if it happens anymore. #5. The plunger hole was too shallow but even after deepening it, the bolt catch still isn't pushedup high enough because the magazine follower is too low. P-Mag Follower and Bolt Catch Engagement *Issue Resolved! Operation of an AR-15 without the receivers / action fully closed may result in serious injuries or death. Before that would be a solution - you need tocheck how much further into the upper receiver that your magazine will go. It may not display this or other websites correctly. I read through the threads dealing with this issue. It was initially 0.323 deep. It was initially 0.323 deep. Additionally, unsafe and unintended methods of operation of the FIREARM may also cause non-compliance. Your link has been automatically embedded. PMAG Problems Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated They all functioned fine. Using PMAGs can actually do irreparable damage to an FN SCAR rifle. So far so good. I'll try and grab my camera. I read your post twice, I still don't see the malfunction. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. I sent an email toDaytona Tactical support telling that themagazine catch hole is0.049 too low compared to others I've seen drawings of and am awaiting their response. Again, though, I would like to recognize that PMAGs are a quality product and Magpul is very receptive to user feedback. Re: Magpul PMag issues. You cannot paste images directly. You are using an out of date browser. Like CPT stated, it's supposed to raise it some and technically it can only go so far before the BCR bottoms out. 11: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch hole = 0.692. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. The bolt can still be removed by grinding but will no longer be usable. Could use some advice, being this is a problem on MANY ARs, not just the M&P's. It's not the bolt catch, itself, obviously. The bolt partially strips a round but doesnt chamber it and just drags over the top of it. Repeat for the P-mags and note any difference. View attachment 25288. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. They are reliable, well-constructed, and produced by a company that has a great reputation. 80% ar-10 bolt jammed m5e1 pmag stuck 1 2 Next Mk3Mstr6Mchne0 Atlington, Washington Messages 12 Reactions 28 Apr 30, 2019 #1 this is kind of hard to explain, I am also pretty experienced with the AR platform, my M5e1 upper is assembled on an 80% lower. Mick 1 month later. The plunger and compressed spring are 0.490. Here's a pic of the wear on the bolt catch caused by this: Here's the OEM mag (left) compared to the PMAG (right). What the problem is: The lip on the un-fixed P-mag pushes the mag release/Bolt catch bar up just enough to catch the bolt group, but not enough to stop it. I liken this to a person who lives in an urban area with an office job, assuming that nobody needs anything more than a Toyota Camry, while overlooking the fact that some people need things such as towing capacity, off-road capability, or more seats for a larger family. The edit feature will become available to you with just a few more posts on the forum. Snipers Hide is a community of Snipers of all kinds, focusing on long range shooting, accuracy, and ballistics. It's brand new so it couldn't be anything crazy like the gas block. Also check out this great, descriptive video as the Gen3 7.62x51 PMag followers have a slightly different contour which can catch the feed lips, and not rise high enough to engage the bolt catch properly on DPMS Gen 2 style bolt catch levers. Maybe after Magpul completes their move they'll address some of their mold issues, 'til then it's best to check. This is not the case with PMAGs in many platforms. New firearms are designed around common Colt-pattern mags, and Magpul has to keep accommodating new designs with generational changes, or new offerings altogether, like they did with the EMAG. The problem apears to be that the mag follower tab does not protrude out the back of the mag far enough, the follower wants to ride more . I'll have to get measurements later. For me I had to shave off small pieces of the mag to make the bolt catch itself latch. Seen here is a few examples of when a PMAG has to be manually removed: a problem that isn't present most of the time with plain old aluminum magazines. Not a back-breaking amount, mind you, but not insignificant. For a while you only had so long to make the edit and then never again. What's stopping your bolt catch travel, when you have that plunger and spring in there? I recently bought 3 for my acr and when comparing it to the other mags i have for it, it seems the internal part does not come up high enough to lift the bolt catch. Loading magazines at home means more shooting time at the range. /r/ar15 is here for your favorite black gun links, build pics, questions and other tactical or practical information. It isnt that they are bad (in fact they feed and run very well in certain firearms) but in my years of shooting I have simply found that other products may better suit a myriad of shooters. 3: Magazine feed lips height = 0.446, Fig. I started construction with the lower at 80%. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. Fig. Really appreciate your thorough pictures provided, that's an excellent way to provide data on your issues. Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. I'm looking forward to hearing some comments on this. For more information, please see our Talyn said: Pmag VS Hexmag. If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, Ill test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 5. That said, there is a reason that there are generations of these magazines. The gun will feed rounds from the PMAGs no problem. The mags cause the bolt catch to rise ever so slightly and drag on the bolt lugs, which results in significant damage over time. Founded by Frank Galli in 2000, Snipers Hide has been offering informational videos, podcasts, and other support to its users in one location. The plunger hole on this 80% lower was supposed to have already been finished. I dont know what the limit is before you earn the edit privileges. All Rights Reserved. Im almost through with my build, however I have noticed that my Seekins enhanced Bolt Catch in my Anderson lower is not locking back on PMags like it does on my aluminum and steel magazines. The max difference is 0.030".The real problem is where the mag catch hole is in the lower. I thought about a low mag catch (the machining of it) very first, based on your info, but I wanted to know about that mag catch's internal parts first. In total, I (and friends) fired about 1,200 rounds in this review, 1,000 PMC .223 55-grain, about 200 reloads (a mix of 77- and 75-grain), and 20 rounds of Tula steel case at the very end. Seamac, did you have to modify the black polymer on the mag? We are all guilty of doing this, in one way or another. That should tell you what's going on. The plunger and compressed spring are 0.490. I deepened the hole to 0.480. Operation of any AR MAGLOCK products outside the standard method of operation or its original intended use may cause non-compliance to laws / regulations, and injury or death. This is. /r/ar15 is here for your favorite black gun links, build pics, questions and other tactical or practical information. UPDATE: after tinkering with it, Ive noticed it only happens on 30 round mags. Would anyone be willing to measure and report their heights from the top of the lower to the top of a cartridge case head? Seen here is a few examples of when a PMAG has to be manually removed: a problem that isnt present most of the time with plain old aluminum magazines. TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. and our 8: Bolt Carrier to upper receiver = 0.283. But with firearms, there really is seldom a one size fits all option for, well, anything. Coil bind on the spring? Personally I wouldn't shoot it until you've got this issue corrected. Cookie Notice If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, I'll test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 5. The tension on the bolt catch by the BCG helps keep the bolt catch firmly engaged over the rear of the follower of the Pmag. You can post now and register later. Why not just ditch the PMags? Yes I had to trim the left side rear notch square before the BC laid perfectly flat. Of course, this is just my opinion, based on my personal experiences, and your mileage may vary. Iiiiffffff I owned one of those evil black rifles , I might buy the Hexmag brand when they went on sale for $6.95 ea. These same parts are available from other vendors. Switch the Safety selector to 'Safe'. I included a pic of the mag fully inserted, then a mag with the follower pushed down to the point of where the bolt catch stays flat. JavaScript is disabled. Insert the steel DPMS mag and lock the bolt back and look through the ejection port and note how much of the bolt face the bolt catch covers. I personally dont see why I would spend an extra five bucks for magazines that wont drop free in all my guns, may or may not be compatible with new and upcoming guns, and my next point: wont fit in all my guns. It may not display this or other websites correctly. But if you're having this problem just take the flat of a knife blade and, holding the blade perpendicular to the magazine body, scrape a little bit of the plastic away until your bolt latch has free travel. Here's a photo showing the mags. As soon as my wife lifts our household arms embargo, I will have one. We STRONGLY encourage all users to ONLY run premium ammunition through their firearm at all times. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. The mags cause the bolt catch to rise ever . Next up is damage to the SCAR. To my knowledge, no PMAGs will work in the FS-2000 to this day without modification. Have the power still to banish your defenders; till at length your ignorance, which finds not till it feels, making but reservation of yourselves, still your own foes, deliver you, as most abated captives to some nation that won you without blows!". All Rights Reserved. I just don't know why my friend has witness marks on his pmags after use in my Scar 16s. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. The bolt catch problem can be solved by drilling the plunger hole deeper but Id first like to solve the feed problem. Once bolt was locked to the rear or closed, it would engage the catch and seat properly on the "bad" mag. The mag on the left is the metal 10 round mag, the two to the right are Pmags. Open the receivers to the maximum limit of the pin capabilities. 10: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch = 0.696, Fig. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. My external measurement as shown in figure 11 is the top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch hole which is 0.692. It's a precaution against folks who like to cause trouble immediately after joining up. One new winner* is announced every week! The witness make could be from the locking lugs on the bolt, mine don't have it so I can't say for sure. (not my lower, but my exact problem!)
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